AstonJ

AstonJ

How can smaller, more independent languages compete with those backed by tech giants?

  • Do you think it’s worth worrying about?
  • Do you think it’s going to be an even bigger issue in future?
  • If so what can the teams of smaller more independent languages (and frameworks) do to compete?

I have some ideas that doesn’t involve deep pockets - but curious to hear what you think :upside_down_face:

Most Liked

dimitarvp

dimitarvp

Not at all. Most languages out there are not backed by corporations and they are doing amazingly well.

  • OCaml is mostly used and extended by Jane Street but it is still being actively changed by scientists and hobbyists.
  • Rust is backed by a foundation but started off as a bunch of hobbyists.
    Elixir is still not backed by a corporation and it enjoys a steady slow growth to this day.
  • F# wasn’t corporate-backed at the beginning as well.
  • Zig is mostly the brain-child of a single person and is highly praised.

Examples abound. If anything, I’d claim the opposite: the more corporately backed a language is, the more it gets warped to the needs of the corporations that back it and that’s not a good thing.

One example: Golang is backed up by Google and it suffers a number of embarrassing incidents like elementary mistakes in its crypto and HTTP libraries.

Nobody can predict the future but if programming becomes strongly regulated down the line then yes, lack of corporate backing might be fatal. At the moment this isn’t a problem at all though.

Awesome and amazing tooling. Elixir, Rust and Zig are a shining example. It’s not enough your language to be really good (LISP, OCaml) but it also has to have very good package manager, task runner etc. (cargo for Rust, mix for Elixir). Python is hugely popular yet it suffers from basic lack of tooling to this day.

If you make your programming users’ lives easier then will flock to your language.

Nothing in particular except for something rather vague from me:

Watching Rust and OCaml showed me that some scientific (mostly mathematical and logical) training pays huge dividends. Some Rust core functions and 3rd party libraries utilized particular breed of state machines (finite state automatons I think) to optimize regexes and concurrent / parallel processing with crushing success. And others are starting to sit on top of those extremely solid foundations.

Just an opinion: a bit more formal training and higher education need to make a comeback to the professional programming. Otherwise everybody is reinventing the same half-broken wheel all the time.

finner

finner

hi @dimitarvp -

that sounds worrying. What would be regulated? I’m thinking encryption … ?

Another interesting point!! As tech advances at the speed of light the industry might just need people to upgrade their formal qualifications every number of years. The Java community is only starting to shuffle out of its deep sleep for the past 10 years. New concepts need to be learned now like - Functional Programming, Reactive Streams, Java modules, and more.
I have often heard programmers being compared to doctors. Doctors are also constantly in a learning state, otherwise they would be treating patients with outdated techniques. Do you think programmers should have licenses ? … I just has a NullPointerException thrown in my brain when I wrote that,
What kind f formal training are you thinking about?

dimitarvp

dimitarvp

Real, true mathematics. Constraint solving. Probabilistic calculations and algorithms. Calculations of the limits of functions (property testing kind of does that but not really).

Parallel processing of complex graphs – just one strong innovation here can make most compilers on the planet 6x faster.

There are many examples.

I’m not a mathematician. But nowadays I wish I was. Math has a lot of stuff for us to learn from. Modern programming reinvents wheels and tears them apart on a regular basis.

I feel that we can do so much better.

Where Next?

Popular General Dev topics Top

AstonJ
The obligatory speed test thread :smiley: Check here: https://www.speedtest.net When complete, click on the share link and copy and pas...
New
AstonJ
If you had the ear of a language creator, what would you say - what could they do to make a language that you would use? :upside_down_face:
New
AstonJ
What chair do you have while working… and why? Is there a ‘best’ type of chair or working position for developers?
New
AstonJ
Thought it might be worth having a dedicated thread for standing desk treadmills (for those interested, here’s our general thread on stan...
New
AstonJ
Curious to know which languages and frameworks you’re all thinking about learning next :upside_down_face: Perhaps if there’s enough peop...
New
AstonJ
Do you think it’s worth worrying about? Do you think it’s going to be an even bigger issue in future? If so what can the teams of smaller...
New
AstonJ
Things like smart speakers (such Amazon Alexa), smart TVs or other devices with built in microphones, cameras or with other features that...
New
AstonJ
Just wondering whether you have a preference (I know I do!) poll
New
Exadra37
My brother got a VPS on https://contabo.com hosting provider, but I was not aware of them, and when my brother told me the price and spec...
New
jaeyson
Hi!, hope everyone’s ok. Sorry if this question is ambiguous (i’ll remove this if i break some rules here). This is more like a self-ques...
New

Other popular topics Top

AstonJ
A thread that every forum needs! Simply post a link to a track on YouTube (or SoundCloud or Vimeo amongst others!) on a separate line an...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Brace yourself for a fun challenge: build a photorealistic 3D renderer from scratch! In just a couple of weeks, build a ray tracer that r...
New
DevotionGeo
I know that these benchmarks might not be the exact picture of real-world scenario, but still I expect a Rust web framework performing a ...
New
AstonJ
Or looking forward to? :nerd_face:
490 12945 266
New
AstonJ
In case anyone else is wondering why Ruby 3 doesn’t show when you do asdf list-all ruby :man_facepalming: do this first: asdf plugin-upd...
New
AstonJ
Saw this on TikTok of all places! :lol: Anyone heard of them before? Lite:
New
Help
I am trying to crate a game for the Nintendo switch, I wanted to use Java as I am comfortable with that programming language. Can you use...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Author Spotlight: Peter Ullrich @PJUllrich Data is at the core of every business, but it is useless if nobody can access and analyze ...
New
AnfaengerAlex
Hello, I’m a beginner in Android development and I’m facing an issue with my project setup. In my build.gradle.kts file, I have the foll...
New
mindriot
Ok, well here are some thoughts and opinions on some of the ergonomic keyboards I have, I guess like mini review of each that I use enoug...
New