AstonJ

AstonJ

How can smaller, more independent languages compete with those backed by tech giants?

  • Do you think it’s worth worrying about?
  • Do you think it’s going to be an even bigger issue in future?
  • If so what can the teams of smaller more independent languages (and frameworks) do to compete?

I have some ideas that doesn’t involve deep pockets - but curious to hear what you think :upside_down_face:

Most Liked

dimitarvp

dimitarvp

Not at all. Most languages out there are not backed by corporations and they are doing amazingly well.

  • OCaml is mostly used and extended by Jane Street but it is still being actively changed by scientists and hobbyists.
  • Rust is backed by a foundation but started off as a bunch of hobbyists.
    Elixir is still not backed by a corporation and it enjoys a steady slow growth to this day.
  • F# wasn’t corporate-backed at the beginning as well.
  • Zig is mostly the brain-child of a single person and is highly praised.

Examples abound. If anything, I’d claim the opposite: the more corporately backed a language is, the more it gets warped to the needs of the corporations that back it and that’s not a good thing.

One example: Golang is backed up by Google and it suffers a number of embarrassing incidents like elementary mistakes in its crypto and HTTP libraries.

Nobody can predict the future but if programming becomes strongly regulated down the line then yes, lack of corporate backing might be fatal. At the moment this isn’t a problem at all though.

Awesome and amazing tooling. Elixir, Rust and Zig are a shining example. It’s not enough your language to be really good (LISP, OCaml) but it also has to have very good package manager, task runner etc. (cargo for Rust, mix for Elixir). Python is hugely popular yet it suffers from basic lack of tooling to this day.

If you make your programming users’ lives easier then will flock to your language.

Nothing in particular except for something rather vague from me:

Watching Rust and OCaml showed me that some scientific (mostly mathematical and logical) training pays huge dividends. Some Rust core functions and 3rd party libraries utilized particular breed of state machines (finite state automatons I think) to optimize regexes and concurrent / parallel processing with crushing success. And others are starting to sit on top of those extremely solid foundations.

Just an opinion: a bit more formal training and higher education need to make a comeback to the professional programming. Otherwise everybody is reinventing the same half-broken wheel all the time.

finner

finner

hi @dimitarvp -

that sounds worrying. What would be regulated? I’m thinking encryption … ?

Another interesting point!! As tech advances at the speed of light the industry might just need people to upgrade their formal qualifications every number of years. The Java community is only starting to shuffle out of its deep sleep for the past 10 years. New concepts need to be learned now like - Functional Programming, Reactive Streams, Java modules, and more.
I have often heard programmers being compared to doctors. Doctors are also constantly in a learning state, otherwise they would be treating patients with outdated techniques. Do you think programmers should have licenses ? … I just has a NullPointerException thrown in my brain when I wrote that,
What kind f formal training are you thinking about?

dimitarvp

dimitarvp

Real, true mathematics. Constraint solving. Probabilistic calculations and algorithms. Calculations of the limits of functions (property testing kind of does that but not really).

Parallel processing of complex graphs – just one strong innovation here can make most compilers on the planet 6x faster.

There are many examples.

I’m not a mathematician. But nowadays I wish I was. Math has a lot of stuff for us to learn from. Modern programming reinvents wheels and tears them apart on a regular basis.

I feel that we can do so much better.

Where Next?

Popular General Dev topics Top

AstonJ
The obligatory speed test thread :smiley: Check here: https://www.speedtest.net When complete, click on the share link and copy and pas...
New
justinjunodev
Figured this would be a cool topic and maybe provide some inspiration for those who are just starting to work from home. Feel free to sha...
New
AstonJ
What chair do you have while working… and why? Is there a ‘best’ type of chair or working position for developers?
New
AstonJ
If you’re a fan, why? If you’re not fussed on it, how comes?
New
chasekaylee
Hi everyone! I have been in the professional industry for ~2 years now coming from a boot camp. I started a base foundation by programmin...
New
AstonJ
The dev world doesn’t sit still, in fact it is probably one of the fastest paced industries around - meaning to stay current we are conti...
New
jss
What do people think about Data-Oriented Programming, like this book tackles? https://www.manning.com/books/data-oriented-programming Ho...
New
AstonJ
Continuing the discussion from Thinking about learning Crystal, let’s discuss - I was wondering which languages don’t GC - maybe we can c...
New
dwaynebradley
In their weekly newsletter, Jared Santo from the Changelog shared this blog post by Mark Ericksen over at fly.io: What is really inter...
New
OvermindDL1
Maybe we need a thread of hosting providers we like and for what reasons. I personally like OVH, they are a very low level host (they re...
New

Other popular topics Top

Devtalk
Hello Devtalk World! Please let us know a little about who you are and where you’re from :nerd_face:
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Free and open source software is the default choice for the technologies that run our world, and it’s built and maintained by people like...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Design and develop sophisticated 2D games that are as much fun to make as they are to play. From particle effects and pathfinding to soci...
New
AstonJ
Curious to know which languages and frameworks you’re all thinking about learning next :upside_down_face: Perhaps if there’s enough peop...
New
AstonJ
poll poll Be sure to check out @Dusty’s article posted here: An Introduction to Alternative Keyboard Layouts It’s one of the best write-...
New
AstonJ
Thanks to @foxtrottwist’s and @Tomas’s posts in this thread: Poll: Which code editor do you use? I bought Onivim! :nerd_face: https://on...
New
AstonJ
If you get Can't find emacs in your PATH when trying to install Doom Emacs on your Mac you… just… need to install Emacs first! :lol: bre...
New
husaindevelop
Inside our android webview app, we are trying to paste the copied content from another app eg (notes) using navigator.clipboard.readtext ...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Develop, deploy, and debug BEAM applications using BEAMOps: a new paradigm that focuses on scalability, fault tolerance, and owning each ...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Lint your docs like code: turn any style guide into enforceable rules with Vale and publish clear, consistent content every time. ...
New