CommunityNews

CommunityNews

What a better rust would look like

What a better Rust would look like.
The Hare programming language was announced a few days ago, and, at first glance, its syntax looks similar to Rust. So, why would people bother to create a new language which aims to fulfill the same niche as Rust (system programming), with a similar syntax? Rust is often described by

Read in full here:

This thread was posted by one of our members via one of our news source trackers.

Most Liked

OvermindDL1

OvermindDL1

Yeeeeaaaah, HN, reddit, and unending IRC and Discord and Forum servers have utterly ripped this article apart… I’ll do a quick summarization:

In 2022, a standard library should at least contain the following packages:

DearGodNo! In short by making those things in the standard library means you are no longer able to iterate and advance on it, the API is then stuck forever more if you care about backwards compatibility at all, in addition no single instantiation of those is acceptable for all purposes, this is utterly inane to even suggest.

I don’t like centralized package repositories. They add complexity and obfuscation, all while supply chain attacks are increasing.

A useful ecosystem is useful, in addition you are not beholden to crates.io at all, you can make your own package server (even import things from crates.io or others into it statically), or vendor things in (cargo can even do that for you), or a variety of other things. But having a good default is good.

Forcing people to, as the article says, follow the Go model: centralized discovery but decentralized distribution is horrible from a maintenance standpoint because depending on a random git repo can suddenly vanish, has no reliability in long term availability, etc… etc… And that’s not even mentioning the other horrors of the go model that it didn’t even scratch on.

Due to how modules and packages work in Rust, I create dependency cycles more often than with some other languages.

…it’s not possible to have dependency cycles in rust, soooo… wut?

I think that Go got it right: modules are scoped by folder instead of files.

Yeah… modules are scoped by filename, so you actually can know what file something you are requesting from without needing to jump all over the place.

Again, I think that Go nailed it: Using the case (lowercase for private, uppercase for public) of the first letter of the identifier is perfect for lazy developers like me.

AnotherGoodFreakingGod, no, doesn’t matter if erlang does it or go does it, specializing visible by initial-case is stupid, just outright. First of all in go something is either public or private, there’s no other visibility modifiers (of which rust has many).

Yet, I don’t think that lexical lifetimes are the answer.

I’m far from an expert in this field, still, from a programmer’s perspective, I would love to see a mix of compile-time lifetime analysis, Automatic Reference Counting (like in the lobster programming language), and manual memory management (marked as unsafe) when extreme performance is needed. How to solve leaks due to cycles? I’m not sure.

But I’m sure that I no longer want to see lifetime annotations pollute our code ever :slight_smile:

At least the person mentions they are not an expert in this because it’s obvious they’ve never had to deal with long lasting system maintenance. And they seem to do the very what-on-earth thing that a lot of people who don’t seem to know much in thinking that ownership is for handling memory, it’s not, it’s for handling all resources, which yes includes memory but that’s a surprisingly small amount of what it manages, of which in go you still have to manage all that stuff manually still, the only thing go does is handle memory via a (very poor) GC, no other resource.

Thus features only accumulate, and complexity compounds over time.

Which is why rust has every-3-year versions that actively deprecate and add things in a backwards incompatible way, with an auto-migration tool included with the compiler system.

Governance

Related to features bloat: Who is in charge of refusing new features added to the language to avoid its collapse?

That would indeed be the Rust Governance Committee, which is one of the most well set up of any language anywhere with a very well set process.


Among lots of other… interesting things people have said. This article is exceedingly obviously made by someone who does not have long term work in maintainability of backend services in the industry.

chikega

chikega

So many new systems level programming languages ( Zig, Odin , Vlang, Nim, Hare), so little time. :cowboy_hat_face:

faust

faust

I guess the author just likes Go and can’t stand the idea of another language being better :sweat_smile:

Where Next?

Popular Backend topics Top

First poster: bot
nim-lang/Nim. Nim is a statically typed compiled systems programming language. It combines successful concepts from mature languages lik...
New
First poster: bot
One of Haskell’s features that I really liked was list comprehensions, so I was very pleased to discover how nice Julia’s comprehensions ...
New
First poster: bot
In this episode, we look at some common functionality that we got with Rails UJS and what it looks like to reimplement these with Hotwire...
New
New
First poster: bot
GitHub - cshum/imagor: Fast, Docker-ready image processing server written in Go and libvips, with Thumbor URL syntax. Fast, Docker-ready...
New
First poster: bot
For the first 8 or so years of my programming experience, while I was an undergraduate and later graduate student, working in the experim...
New
First poster: adamaiken89
PHP: Frankenstein arrays. PHP has become quite a nice language, but there are some ugly legacies left from the past. Like the deceptive ...
New
First poster: OvermindDL1
GitHub - mcobzarenco/zee: A modern text editor for the terminal written in Rust. A modern text editor for the terminal written in Rust -...
New
First poster: bot
GitHub - clojure-rs/ClojureRS: Clojure, implemented atop Rust (unofficial). Clojure, implemented atop Rust (unofficial). Contribute to c...
New
First poster: bot
user-defined iteration using range over func values · Discussion #56413 · golang/go. There is no standard way to iterate over a sequence...
/go
New

Other popular topics Top

PragmaticBookshelf
Stop developing web apps with yesterday’s tools. Today, developers are increasingly adopting Clojure as a web-development platform. See f...
New
brentjanderson
Bought the Moonlander mechanical keyboard. Cherry Brown MX switches. Arms and wrists have been hurting enough that it’s time I did someth...
New
DevotionGeo
I know that -t flag is used along with -i flag for getting an interactive shell. But I cannot digest what the man page for docker run com...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
From finance to artificial intelligence, genetic algorithms are a powerful tool with a wide array of applications. But you don't need an ...
New
New
AstonJ
In case anyone else is wondering why Ruby 3 doesn’t show when you do asdf list-all ruby :man_facepalming: do this first: asdf plugin-upd...
New
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Author Spotlight Jamis Buck @jamis This month, we have the pleasure of spotlighting author Jamis Buck, who has written Mazes for Prog...
New
AstonJ
If you want a quick and easy way to block any website on your Mac using Little Snitch simply… File > New Rule: And select Deny, O...
New
AstonJ
This is a very quick guide, you just need to: Download LM Studio: https://lmstudio.ai/ Click on search Type DeepSeek, then select the o...
New