CommunityNews

CommunityNews

There’s No Such Thing as Clean Code

Everyone seems to be striving for ‘clean’ code at the moment. You can’t read a blog post without the author telling you how clean their approach is. Engineering teams get together and discuss which of the possible solutions is the cleanest. Other developers assure you that they practice ‘clean code’.

I’ve come to a realisation though. There’s no such thing as clean code.

Read in full here:

https://www.steveonstuff.com/2022/01/27/no-such-thing-as-clean-code

This thread was posted by one of our members via one of our news source trackers.

Most Liked

davearonson

davearonson

Not exactly “no such thing”, more like quite the opposite, “too many things”. :slight_smile: Somewhat like “quality software”, tossed around with mostly no definition, or occasionally too many definitions. (That’s why, in the spirit of XKCD 967, I’m making One Definition To Rule Them All – results so far at Codosaurus: ACRUMEN .)

dimitarvp

dimitarvp

Quite true.

I personally read “clean code” as “something I can pick up in 5 minutes if I haven’t touched the code base in a year” which is IMO a good pragmatic way of looking at it.

But too many people have been living in poverty, became programmers and skipped five social ladder steps in the upwards direction… and then super quickly became insufferable snobs that started writing bullshit like “clean code aesthete” in their biographies. :person_facepalming: (Yes, I’ve actually seen that and was flabbergasted)

The older I get the more extreme I become. Our area needs a serious cleanup. :expressionless:

davearonson

davearonson

(Sorry for the delayed reply, I’m catching up after a week of vacation!)

Yes, good clean code would be easier to pivot with… but in the time it takes for the business side to decide what to pivot to, the dev side can get started cleaning up the code a bit, plus there’s a fairly large chance that the whole codebase will get chucked and rewritten anyway, or that the biz will just go totally bust and not have a chance to pivot into anything.

As for monoliths, yes, it’s an argument for doing things the easy way. Building a monolith, whether majestic or not, is much easier and faster than deciding where to split things up into microservices, and figuring out how to make them all communicate properly. You can certainly start it as a monolith, and tear off chunks to be microservices later. Again, yes, this will be easier with good clean code… but that’s an investment that you might well not have a chance to cash in. You can also tear off chunks in just a conceptual manner, and reimplement the code differently, perhaps more cleanly this time (since it will probably last longer this time).

But that does bring up an idea… maybe a framework based around microservices in the first place? Say for instance we started with Rails but added microservices for various common things to add on, like various kinds of user management, especially authentication and profiles, maybe authorization, into microservices. Or provided a common foundation for making microservices, so if you needed to split off a service for certain kinds of PII or PHI or credit card data or anything else sensitive, or anything else that might otherwise make sense to split out, you could start that microservice from a common basis, much like how so many apps start from the basis of Rails. Think that might be useful?

Where Next?

Popular General Dev topics Top

First poster: iPaul
TOKYO (Kyodo) – Japan’s government plans to encourage firms to let their employees choose to work four days a week instead of five, aimin...
New
First poster: mafinar
F# Is The Best Coding Language Today. If you want to personally pick up a programming language in order to become a better coder in what...
New
First poster: bot
SPWN is a programming language that compiles to Geometry Dash levels. What that means is that you can create levels by using not only the...
New
First poster: bot
Large Language Models like ChatGPT say The Darnedest Things. The Errors They MakeWhy We Need to Document Them, and What We Have Decided ...
New
First poster: bot
GitHub - jakehilborn/displayplacer: macOS command line utility to configure multi-display resolutions and arrangements. Essentially XRand...
New
First poster: Korbin73
Whatever happened to Elm, anyway?. I see this question pop up quite frequently in lots of different arenas - folks are curious as to wha...
New
First poster: AstonJ
On the benefits of learning in public. Learning in public helps me grow as an engineer and seems to benefit others too. Here’s why I sho...
New
CommunityNews
After switching from Firefox to LibreWolf, I became interested in the idea of self-hosting my own Firefox Sync server. Although I had see...
New
First poster: alvinkatojr
There are countless articles why developers should not focus on Frameworks too much and instead learn to understand the underlying langua...
New
First poster: ozornin
The web browser made for people, with love. Best privacy by default, unbiased ad-blocking, no bloat and no noise. Fully open source.
New

Other popular topics Top

Rainer
My first contact with Erlang was about 2 years ago when I used RabbitMQ, which is written in Erlang, for my job. This made me curious and...
New
AstonJ
poll poll Be sure to check out @Dusty’s article posted here: An Introduction to Alternative Keyboard Layouts It’s one of the best write-...
New
AstonJ
I ended up cancelling my Moonlander order as I think it’s just going to be a bit too bulky for me. I think the Planck and the Preonic (o...
New
Maartz
Hi folks, I don’t know if I saw this here but, here’s a new programming language, called Roc Reminds me a bit of Elm and thus Haskell. ...
New
foxtrottwist
A few weeks ago I started using Warp a terminal written in rust. Though in it’s current state of development there are a few caveats (tab...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Programming Ruby is the most complete book on Ruby, covering both the language itself and the standard library as well as commonly used t...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Leverage Elixir and the Nx ecosystem to build intelligent applications that solve real-world problems in computer vision, natural languag...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Develop, deploy, and debug BEAM applications using BEAMOps: a new paradigm that focuses on scalability, fault tolerance, and owning each ...
New
NewsBot
Node.js v22.14.0 has been released. Link: Release 2025-02-11, Version 22.14.0 'Jod' (LTS), @aduh95 · nodejs/node · GitHub
New
xiji2646-netizen
There’s a GitHub repo at forrestchang/andrej-karpathy-skills that’s sitting at 97.8k stars. It’s a single CLAUDE.md file with four behavi...
New