elbrujohalcon

elbrujohalcon

How do List Functions Fail in Erlang?

A long time ago, I wrote an article about The Asymmetry of ++, thanks to
Fede Bergero’s findings. Let’s add a few more asymmetries to that list…

Most Liked

OvermindDL1

OvermindDL1

As to the originally referenced article, ++ isn’t asymmetric in the way it was shown but rather it’s a function that would be written like this in elixir:

def ++(left, right), do: append(:lists.reverse(left), right, [])
def shift_cells([], acc), do: acc
def shift_cells([e|r], acc), do: [e, acc]

Which is precisely what it is defined to do. Lists on the beam in erlang and elixir are not typed lists, they are not full “proper” Cons lists, you can potentially make lists in the first Cons element, the second, zig zag every which way, etc… The ending element isn’t special, it doesn’t need to be a list. Now sure ++ would not make much sense in a statically typed language, but erlang/elixir are not statically typed languages. It’s not an asymmetry as it is not a ‘prepend’ operator, it is more of a ‘shift cells over’ operator.


As for this article, looks good. ^.^

You really should put what OTP version you were working with in Erlang as a lot of error responses for BIF’s have changed in recent versions (more information in the exceptions! ^.^).

I wouldn’t opt for the exception catching of the lists calls but rather a pre-check, or toss the check ‘up’ the callstack by requiring, for example, the list argument to your function to be List=[_|_] instead of just List to enforce a Cons cell instead of a Nil cell.

Basically, behave like lists:foldl/3 but don’t treat empty lists as a special case.

I’m not sure I agree, those are different issues with different exceptions. More I would argue that the exceptions should not be caught at all to begin with as malformed input was supplied to the function and thus who knows what other bad data there is, this is part of OTP’s Let It Crash philosophy, and exceptions are indeed “exceptional” events, not for standard control flow like they are being used here. Plus adding those guards may seem easy to something like map, but that is going to incur a cost on one of the hottest code paths in the entire system, not sure it’s worth it (although with the new JIT in OTP24, who knows, benchmark?).

OvermindDL1

OvermindDL1

Hear hear! I really like the recent changes. ^.^

Lol, why do I want a link to this discussion? ^.^

In this case yes. Most good type systems can enforce non-emptiness, and erlang likes to pretend it does as well. It’s on the caller to ensure they are passing in good data in that case. I’m a fan of static typed systems that can actually enforce this though, lol. Dialyzer helps a little bit at least. Hmm, does dialyzer catch that case actually?

elbrujohalcon

elbrujohalcon

Thank you for the super-detailed answer(s), @OvermindDL1 !!

I should’ve stated that I was testing this on OTP23, you’re right.

In any case, Lukas Larsson (from the OTP team) already replied in Medium with that regarding what they’re doing to improve error descriptions… and it’s GREAT!!

Finally, to some things in your message…

100% agree! I actually had to explain this very same thing when discussing the robot butt article on lobsters recently.

To be clear: Are we talking about the same different issues here? What I tried to say was that calling a function that works normally with empty lists, with an empty list and another wrong argument, should not behave as if it was called with something that’s not a list. Instead, it should behave as if it was called with a non-empty list. Do you still think that calling it with a bad fun and an empty list is a different issue than calling it with a bad fun and a non-empty list?

Of course, you’re right. But I was exemplifying.

Yeah, I agree again. That’s why the section in the article is called Is this a Problem? and not This is a Problem. This is clearly a made up problem just for the sake of arguing, except for the confusing error descriptions in the shell, which is what Lukas and the OTP Team are fixing right now :tada: :exclamation:

Where Next?

Popular Backend topics Top

New
First poster: bot
The run-time speed and memory usage of programs written in Rust should about the same as of programs written in C, but overall programmin...
New
First poster: bot
Creation vs. Evolution Consider the history of Elixir: first you take Erlang, which was invented by Joe Armstrong and team to solve the ...
New
First poster: bot
At Grammarly, the foundation of our business, our core grammar engine, is written in Common Lisp. It currently processes more than a thou...
New
New
New
wolf4earth
Tej Pochiraju joins the mix to discuss Progressive Web Apps and how you can support them using Elixir and Phoenix to control IoT devices....
New
chikega
Mark Hoffman, the author of Programming WebAssembly in Rust, is a pretty hilarious lecturer if you like a dry sense of humor.
New
brainlid
In episode 81 of Thinking Elixir, we talk with Digit and Quinn Wilton about the Burrito project. It wraps up Elixir to a single binary, e...
New
ragamuf
Does the world need another How to create a blog article? Maybe not. But then again, creating something out of nothing is what we love....
New

Other popular topics Top

Devtalk
Reading something? Working on something? Planning something? Changing jobs even!? If you’re up for sharing, please let us know what you’...
1050 21151 394
New
wolf4earth
@AstonJ prompted me to open this topic after I mentioned in the lockdown thread how I started to do a lot more for my fitness. https://f...
New
AstonJ
In case anyone else is wondering why Ruby 3 doesn’t show when you do asdf list-all ruby :man_facepalming: do this first: asdf plugin-upd...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Create efficient, elegant software tests in pytest, Python's most powerful testing framework. Brian Okken @brianokken Edited by Kat...
New
AstonJ
Biggest jackpot ever apparently! :upside_down_face: I don’t (usually) gamble/play the lottery, but working on a program to predict the...
New
Help
I am trying to crate a game for the Nintendo switch, I wanted to use Java as I am comfortable with that programming language. Can you use...
New
DevotionGeo
I have always used antique keyboards like Cherry MX 1800 or Cherry MX 8100 and almost always have modified the switches in some way, like...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Get the comprehensive, insider information you need for Rails 8 with the new edition of this award-winning classic. Sam Ruby @rubys ...
New
NewsBot
Node.js v22.14.0 has been released. Link: Release 2025-02-11, Version 22.14.0 'Jod' (LTS), @aduh95 · nodejs/node · GitHub
New
mindriot
Ok, well here are some thoughts and opinions on some of the ergonomic keyboards I have, I guess like mini review of each that I use enoug...
New