elbrujohalcon

elbrujohalcon

How do List Functions Fail in Erlang?

A long time ago, I wrote an article about The Asymmetry of ++, thanks to
Fede Bergero’s findings. Let’s add a few more asymmetries to that list…

Most Liked

OvermindDL1

OvermindDL1

As to the originally referenced article, ++ isn’t asymmetric in the way it was shown but rather it’s a function that would be written like this in elixir:

def ++(left, right), do: append(:lists.reverse(left), right, [])
def shift_cells([], acc), do: acc
def shift_cells([e|r], acc), do: [e, acc]

Which is precisely what it is defined to do. Lists on the beam in erlang and elixir are not typed lists, they are not full “proper” Cons lists, you can potentially make lists in the first Cons element, the second, zig zag every which way, etc… The ending element isn’t special, it doesn’t need to be a list. Now sure ++ would not make much sense in a statically typed language, but erlang/elixir are not statically typed languages. It’s not an asymmetry as it is not a ‘prepend’ operator, it is more of a ‘shift cells over’ operator.


As for this article, looks good. ^.^

You really should put what OTP version you were working with in Erlang as a lot of error responses for BIF’s have changed in recent versions (more information in the exceptions! ^.^).

I wouldn’t opt for the exception catching of the lists calls but rather a pre-check, or toss the check ‘up’ the callstack by requiring, for example, the list argument to your function to be List=[_|_] instead of just List to enforce a Cons cell instead of a Nil cell.

Basically, behave like lists:foldl/3 but don’t treat empty lists as a special case.

I’m not sure I agree, those are different issues with different exceptions. More I would argue that the exceptions should not be caught at all to begin with as malformed input was supplied to the function and thus who knows what other bad data there is, this is part of OTP’s Let It Crash philosophy, and exceptions are indeed “exceptional” events, not for standard control flow like they are being used here. Plus adding those guards may seem easy to something like map, but that is going to incur a cost on one of the hottest code paths in the entire system, not sure it’s worth it (although with the new JIT in OTP24, who knows, benchmark?).

OvermindDL1

OvermindDL1

Hear hear! I really like the recent changes. ^.^

Lol, why do I want a link to this discussion? ^.^

In this case yes. Most good type systems can enforce non-emptiness, and erlang likes to pretend it does as well. It’s on the caller to ensure they are passing in good data in that case. I’m a fan of static typed systems that can actually enforce this though, lol. Dialyzer helps a little bit at least. Hmm, does dialyzer catch that case actually?

elbrujohalcon

elbrujohalcon

Thank you for the super-detailed answer(s), @OvermindDL1 !!

I should’ve stated that I was testing this on OTP23, you’re right.

In any case, Lukas Larsson (from the OTP team) already replied in Medium with that regarding what they’re doing to improve error descriptions… and it’s GREAT!!

Finally, to some things in your message…

100% agree! I actually had to explain this very same thing when discussing the robot butt article on lobsters recently.

To be clear: Are we talking about the same different issues here? What I tried to say was that calling a function that works normally with empty lists, with an empty list and another wrong argument, should not behave as if it was called with something that’s not a list. Instead, it should behave as if it was called with a non-empty list. Do you still think that calling it with a bad fun and an empty list is a different issue than calling it with a bad fun and a non-empty list?

Of course, you’re right. But I was exemplifying.

Yeah, I agree again. That’s why the section in the article is called Is this a Problem? and not This is a Problem. This is clearly a made up problem just for the sake of arguing, except for the confusing error descriptions in the shell, which is what Lukas and the OTP Team are fixing right now :tada: :exclamation:

Where Next?

Popular Backend topics Top

First poster: bot
Such inflammatory, much wow. Unfortunately, Haskell itself agrees. Some languages naturally lend themselves towards adoption. Some don’t...
New
First poster: bot
Julia is a scientific programming language that is free and open source.1 It is a relatively new language that borrows inspiration from l...
New
First poster: AstonJ
Ten years without Elixir. I never got into Elixir, largely because it looked like Ruby. I was a Rubyist for a good while, spent time and...
New
First poster: bot
Just a small test with lists in cython. Considering echosystem, multithreading and ease of use, Julia is a clear winner here.
New
CommunityNews
I don’t like reading thick O’Reilly books when I start learning new programming languages. Rather, I like starting by writing small and d...
New
CommunityNews
This thread was posted by one of our members via one of our news source trackers.
New
pablocostass
Todos coñecemos os focos de Erlang/Elixir máis renomeados do mundo, como a Suecia, o Brasil, a California ou Londres. Mais a comunidade, ...
New
chikega
Mark Hoffman, the author of Programming WebAssembly in Rust, is a pretty hilarious lecturer if you like a dry sense of humor.
New
First poster: AstonJ
Ruby’s Struct is one of several powerful core classes which is often overlooked and under utilized compared to the more popular Hash clas...
New
brainlid
In episode 83 of Thinking Elixir, We talk with Isaac Yonemoto about the Zig language and his Zigler Elixir library. We learn where Zig ca...
New

Other popular topics Top

PragmaticBookshelf
Andy and Dave wrote this influential, classic book to help their clients create better software and rediscover the joy of coding. Almost ...
New
Exadra37
Oh just spent so much time on this to discover now that RancherOS is in end of life but Rancher is refusing to mark the Github repo as su...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Build highly interactive applications without ever leaving Elixir, the way the experts do. Let LiveView take care of performance, scalabi...
New
mafinar
This is going to be a long an frequently posted thread. While talking to a friend of mine who has taken data structure and algorithm cou...
New
AstonJ
We’ve talked about his book briefly here but it is quickly becoming obsolete - so he’s decided to create a series of 7 podcasts, the firs...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Programming Ruby is the most complete book on Ruby, covering both the language itself and the standard library as well as commonly used t...
New
AstonJ
If you’re getting errors like this: psql: error: connection to server on socket “/tmp/.s.PGSQL.5432” failed: No such file or directory ...
New
mindriot
Ok, well here are some thoughts and opinions on some of the ergonomic keyboards I have, I guess like mini review of each that I use enoug...
New
CommunityNews
Open-source implementation of the classic GTA engine now running directly in your browser. Experience the reVC technology demo on DOS.Zon...
New
xiji2646-netizen
There’s a GitHub repo at forrestchang/andrej-karpathy-skills that’s sitting at 97.8k stars. It’s a single CLAUDE.md file with four behavi...
New