elbrujohalcon

elbrujohalcon

How do List Functions Fail in Erlang?

A long time ago, I wrote an article about The Asymmetry of ++, thanks to
Fede Bergero’s findings. Let’s add a few more asymmetries to that list…

Most Liked

OvermindDL1

OvermindDL1

As to the originally referenced article, ++ isn’t asymmetric in the way it was shown but rather it’s a function that would be written like this in elixir:

def ++(left, right), do: append(:lists.reverse(left), right, [])
def shift_cells([], acc), do: acc
def shift_cells([e|r], acc), do: [e, acc]

Which is precisely what it is defined to do. Lists on the beam in erlang and elixir are not typed lists, they are not full “proper” Cons lists, you can potentially make lists in the first Cons element, the second, zig zag every which way, etc… The ending element isn’t special, it doesn’t need to be a list. Now sure ++ would not make much sense in a statically typed language, but erlang/elixir are not statically typed languages. It’s not an asymmetry as it is not a ‘prepend’ operator, it is more of a ‘shift cells over’ operator.


As for this article, looks good. ^.^

You really should put what OTP version you were working with in Erlang as a lot of error responses for BIF’s have changed in recent versions (more information in the exceptions! ^.^).

I wouldn’t opt for the exception catching of the lists calls but rather a pre-check, or toss the check ‘up’ the callstack by requiring, for example, the list argument to your function to be List=[_|_] instead of just List to enforce a Cons cell instead of a Nil cell.

Basically, behave like lists:foldl/3 but don’t treat empty lists as a special case.

I’m not sure I agree, those are different issues with different exceptions. More I would argue that the exceptions should not be caught at all to begin with as malformed input was supplied to the function and thus who knows what other bad data there is, this is part of OTP’s Let It Crash philosophy, and exceptions are indeed “exceptional” events, not for standard control flow like they are being used here. Plus adding those guards may seem easy to something like map, but that is going to incur a cost on one of the hottest code paths in the entire system, not sure it’s worth it (although with the new JIT in OTP24, who knows, benchmark?).

OvermindDL1

OvermindDL1

Hear hear! I really like the recent changes. ^.^

Lol, why do I want a link to this discussion? ^.^

In this case yes. Most good type systems can enforce non-emptiness, and erlang likes to pretend it does as well. It’s on the caller to ensure they are passing in good data in that case. I’m a fan of static typed systems that can actually enforce this though, lol. Dialyzer helps a little bit at least. Hmm, does dialyzer catch that case actually?

elbrujohalcon

elbrujohalcon

Thank you for the super-detailed answer(s), @OvermindDL1 !!

I should’ve stated that I was testing this on OTP23, you’re right.

In any case, Lukas Larsson (from the OTP team) already replied in Medium with that regarding what they’re doing to improve error descriptions… and it’s GREAT!!

Finally, to some things in your message…

100% agree! I actually had to explain this very same thing when discussing the robot butt article on lobsters recently.

To be clear: Are we talking about the same different issues here? What I tried to say was that calling a function that works normally with empty lists, with an empty list and another wrong argument, should not behave as if it was called with something that’s not a list. Instead, it should behave as if it was called with a non-empty list. Do you still think that calling it with a bad fun and an empty list is a different issue than calling it with a bad fun and a non-empty list?

Of course, you’re right. But I was exemplifying.

Yeah, I agree again. That’s why the section in the article is called Is this a Problem? and not This is a Problem. This is clearly a made up problem just for the sake of arguing, except for the confusing error descriptions in the shell, which is what Lukas and the OTP Team are fixing right now :tada: :exclamation:

Where Next?

Popular Backend topics Top

CommunityNews
Is Zig the Long Awaited C Replacement. Comparison with previous C contenders such as C++, D, Java, C#, Go, Rust and Swift https://erik...
New
ErlangSolutions
Interested in a blazingly fast type checker with 25 years of investment, delivered on the BEAM? Check out Caramel, an exciting project fr...
New
First poster: bot
Part 1: Introduction to Postgrest. In Codd, we trust In the field of Computer Science and Engineering, few things come close to the dura...
New
First poster: bot
What’s Next for Teal, the typed dialect of Lua - FOSDEM 2021. This is my talk about the latest updates on the Teal programming language,...
New
First poster: bot
The run-time speed and memory usage of programs written in Rust should about the same as of programs written in C, but overall programmin...
New
First poster: brennan
The perspective of an ignorant computer science undergrad It’s likely that you read the title of this post and thought “what is this guy ...
New
CommunityNews
Have you ever wanted to write a structurally typed function in Rust? Do you spend a lot of time and effort getting your Rust struct s jus...
New
tonyxrandall
When DoorDash approached the limits of what our Django-based monolithic codebase could support, we needed to design a new stack that woul...
New
brainlid
In episode 78 of Thinking Elixir, we talk with Chase Granberry about Logflare. We learn why Chase started the company, what Logflare does...
New
brainlid
In episode 92 of Thinking Elixir, we talk with Mitchell Hanberg and learn about why he created the alternate Phoenix templating language ...
New

Other popular topics Top

DevotionGeo
I know that -t flag is used along with -i flag for getting an interactive shell. But I cannot digest what the man page for docker run com...
New
New
AstonJ
There’s a whole world of custom keycaps out there that I didn’t know existed! Check out all of our Keycaps threads here: https://forum....
New
AstonJ
I’ve been hearing quite a lot of comments relating to the sound of a keyboard, with one of the most desirable of these called ‘thock’, he...
New
Exadra37
I am asking for any distro that only has the bare-bones to be able to get a shell in the server and then just install the packages as we ...
New
DevotionGeo
The V Programming Language Simple language for building maintainable programs V is already mentioned couple of times in the forum, but I...
New
New
Help
I am trying to crate a game for the Nintendo switch, I wanted to use Java as I am comfortable with that programming language. Can you use...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Author Spotlight: Sophie DeBenedetto @SophieDeBenedetto The days of the traditional request-response web application are long gone, b...
New
AstonJ
This is a very quick guide, you just need to: Download LM Studio: https://lmstudio.ai/ Click on search Type DeepSeek, then select the o...
New