elbrujohalcon

elbrujohalcon

How do List Functions Fail in Erlang?

A long time ago, I wrote an article about The Asymmetry of ++, thanks to
Fede Bergero’s findings. Let’s add a few more asymmetries to that list…

Most Liked

OvermindDL1

OvermindDL1

As to the originally referenced article, ++ isn’t asymmetric in the way it was shown but rather it’s a function that would be written like this in elixir:

def ++(left, right), do: append(:lists.reverse(left), right, [])
def shift_cells([], acc), do: acc
def shift_cells([e|r], acc), do: [e, acc]

Which is precisely what it is defined to do. Lists on the beam in erlang and elixir are not typed lists, they are not full “proper” Cons lists, you can potentially make lists in the first Cons element, the second, zig zag every which way, etc… The ending element isn’t special, it doesn’t need to be a list. Now sure ++ would not make much sense in a statically typed language, but erlang/elixir are not statically typed languages. It’s not an asymmetry as it is not a ‘prepend’ operator, it is more of a ‘shift cells over’ operator.


As for this article, looks good. ^.^

You really should put what OTP version you were working with in Erlang as a lot of error responses for BIF’s have changed in recent versions (more information in the exceptions! ^.^).

I wouldn’t opt for the exception catching of the lists calls but rather a pre-check, or toss the check ‘up’ the callstack by requiring, for example, the list argument to your function to be List=[_|_] instead of just List to enforce a Cons cell instead of a Nil cell.

Basically, behave like lists:foldl/3 but don’t treat empty lists as a special case.

I’m not sure I agree, those are different issues with different exceptions. More I would argue that the exceptions should not be caught at all to begin with as malformed input was supplied to the function and thus who knows what other bad data there is, this is part of OTP’s Let It Crash philosophy, and exceptions are indeed “exceptional” events, not for standard control flow like they are being used here. Plus adding those guards may seem easy to something like map, but that is going to incur a cost on one of the hottest code paths in the entire system, not sure it’s worth it (although with the new JIT in OTP24, who knows, benchmark?).

OvermindDL1

OvermindDL1

Hear hear! I really like the recent changes. ^.^

Lol, why do I want a link to this discussion? ^.^

In this case yes. Most good type systems can enforce non-emptiness, and erlang likes to pretend it does as well. It’s on the caller to ensure they are passing in good data in that case. I’m a fan of static typed systems that can actually enforce this though, lol. Dialyzer helps a little bit at least. Hmm, does dialyzer catch that case actually?

elbrujohalcon

elbrujohalcon

Thank you for the super-detailed answer(s), @OvermindDL1 !!

I should’ve stated that I was testing this on OTP23, you’re right.

In any case, Lukas Larsson (from the OTP team) already replied in Medium with that regarding what they’re doing to improve error descriptions… and it’s GREAT!!

Finally, to some things in your message…

100% agree! I actually had to explain this very same thing when discussing the robot butt article on lobsters recently.

To be clear: Are we talking about the same different issues here? What I tried to say was that calling a function that works normally with empty lists, with an empty list and another wrong argument, should not behave as if it was called with something that’s not a list. Instead, it should behave as if it was called with a non-empty list. Do you still think that calling it with a bad fun and an empty list is a different issue than calling it with a bad fun and a non-empty list?

Of course, you’re right. But I was exemplifying.

Yeah, I agree again. That’s why the section in the article is called Is this a Problem? and not This is a Problem. This is clearly a made up problem just for the sake of arguing, except for the confusing error descriptions in the shell, which is what Lukas and the OTP Team are fixing right now :tada: :exclamation:

Where Next?

Popular Backend topics Top

New
New
First poster: bot
In a previous post we talked about implementing a simple video chat with WebRTC and Elixir. This update will touch on some of the API cha...
New
AstonJ
Just finished doing a clean install of macOS (which I highly recommend btw!) and have updated my macOS Ruby & Elixir/Erlang dev env s...
New
First poster: bot
Django 3.2 is just around the corner and it’s packed with new features. Django versions are usually not that exciting (it’s a good thing!...
New
First poster: bot
Once a year, I look back at the recent developments in the PHP world, and also look forward to what’s to come. And just like in 2020 and ...
New
CommunityNews
This thread was posted by one of our members via one of our news source trackers.
New
elbrujohalcon
A long time ago, I wrote an article about The Asymmetry of ++, thanks to Fede Bergero’s findings. Let’s add a few more asymmetries to th...
New
elbrujohalcon
Erlang is famous for its introspecting powers. You can get a lot of information about the processes running in your nodes without any ext...
New
tonyxrandall
When DoorDash approached the limits of what our Django-based monolithic codebase could support, we needed to design a new stack that woul...
New

Other popular topics Top

ohm
Which, if any, games do you play? On what platform? I just bought (and completed) Minecraft Dungeons for my Nintendo Switch. Other than ...
New
AstonJ
Just done a fresh install of macOS Big Sur and on installing Erlang I am getting: asdf install erlang 23.1.2 Configure failed. checking ...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Build highly interactive applications without ever leaving Elixir, the way the experts do. Let LiveView take care of performance, scalabi...
New
DevotionGeo
The V Programming Language Simple language for building maintainable programs V is already mentioned couple of times in the forum, but I...
New
rustkas
Intensively researching Erlang books and additional resources on it, I have found that the topic of using Regular Expressions is either c...
New
AstonJ
We’ve talked about his book briefly here but it is quickly becoming obsolete - so he’s decided to create a series of 7 podcasts, the firs...
New
First poster: AstonJ
Jan | Rethink the Computer. Jan turns your computer into an AI machine by running LLMs locally on your computer. It’s a privacy-focus, l...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Develop, deploy, and debug BEAM applications using BEAMOps: a new paradigm that focuses on scalability, fault tolerance, and owning each ...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Get the comprehensive, insider information you need for Rails 8 with the new edition of this award-winning classic. Sam Ruby @rubys ...
New
AstonJ
This is cool! DEEPSEEK-V3 ON M4 MAC: BLAZING FAST INFERENCE ON APPLE SILICON We just witnessed something incredible: the largest open-s...
New