elbrujohalcon

elbrujohalcon

How do List Functions Fail in Erlang?

A long time ago, I wrote an article about The Asymmetry of ++, thanks to
Fede Bergero’s findings. Let’s add a few more asymmetries to that list…

Most Liked

OvermindDL1

OvermindDL1

As to the originally referenced article, ++ isn’t asymmetric in the way it was shown but rather it’s a function that would be written like this in elixir:

def ++(left, right), do: append(:lists.reverse(left), right, [])
def shift_cells([], acc), do: acc
def shift_cells([e|r], acc), do: [e, acc]

Which is precisely what it is defined to do. Lists on the beam in erlang and elixir are not typed lists, they are not full “proper” Cons lists, you can potentially make lists in the first Cons element, the second, zig zag every which way, etc… The ending element isn’t special, it doesn’t need to be a list. Now sure ++ would not make much sense in a statically typed language, but erlang/elixir are not statically typed languages. It’s not an asymmetry as it is not a ‘prepend’ operator, it is more of a ‘shift cells over’ operator.


As for this article, looks good. ^.^

You really should put what OTP version you were working with in Erlang as a lot of error responses for BIF’s have changed in recent versions (more information in the exceptions! ^.^).

I wouldn’t opt for the exception catching of the lists calls but rather a pre-check, or toss the check ‘up’ the callstack by requiring, for example, the list argument to your function to be List=[_|_] instead of just List to enforce a Cons cell instead of a Nil cell.

Basically, behave like lists:foldl/3 but don’t treat empty lists as a special case.

I’m not sure I agree, those are different issues with different exceptions. More I would argue that the exceptions should not be caught at all to begin with as malformed input was supplied to the function and thus who knows what other bad data there is, this is part of OTP’s Let It Crash philosophy, and exceptions are indeed “exceptional” events, not for standard control flow like they are being used here. Plus adding those guards may seem easy to something like map, but that is going to incur a cost on one of the hottest code paths in the entire system, not sure it’s worth it (although with the new JIT in OTP24, who knows, benchmark?).

OvermindDL1

OvermindDL1

Hear hear! I really like the recent changes. ^.^

Lol, why do I want a link to this discussion? ^.^

In this case yes. Most good type systems can enforce non-emptiness, and erlang likes to pretend it does as well. It’s on the caller to ensure they are passing in good data in that case. I’m a fan of static typed systems that can actually enforce this though, lol. Dialyzer helps a little bit at least. Hmm, does dialyzer catch that case actually?

elbrujohalcon

elbrujohalcon

Thank you for the super-detailed answer(s), @OvermindDL1 !!

I should’ve stated that I was testing this on OTP23, you’re right.

In any case, Lukas Larsson (from the OTP team) already replied in Medium with that regarding what they’re doing to improve error descriptions… and it’s GREAT!!

Finally, to some things in your message…

100% agree! I actually had to explain this very same thing when discussing the robot butt article on lobsters recently.

To be clear: Are we talking about the same different issues here? What I tried to say was that calling a function that works normally with empty lists, with an empty list and another wrong argument, should not behave as if it was called with something that’s not a list. Instead, it should behave as if it was called with a non-empty list. Do you still think that calling it with a bad fun and an empty list is a different issue than calling it with a bad fun and a non-empty list?

Of course, you’re right. But I was exemplifying.

Yeah, I agree again. That’s why the section in the article is called Is this a Problem? and not This is a Problem. This is clearly a made up problem just for the sake of arguing, except for the confusing error descriptions in the shell, which is what Lukas and the OTP Team are fixing right now :tada: :exclamation:

Where Next?

Popular Backend topics Top

ErlangSolutions
Interested in a blazingly fast type checker with 25 years of investment, delivered on the BEAM? Check out Caramel, an exciting project fr...
New
First poster: bot
Part 1: Introduction to Postgrest. In Codd, we trust In the field of Computer Science and Engineering, few things come close to the dura...
New
First poster: bot
In a previous post we talked about implementing a simple video chat with WebRTC and Elixir. This update will touch on some of the API cha...
New
elbrujohalcon
Erlang is famous for its introspecting powers. You can get a lot of information about the processes running in your nodes without any ext...
New
pablocostass
Todos coñecemos os focos de Erlang/Elixir máis renomeados do mundo, como a Suecia, o Brasil, a California ou Londres. Mais a comunidade, ...
New
First poster: bot
Our blog has had a long standing interest in novel uses of the BEAM, or Erlang virtual machine, as shown by the many articles we have pub...
New
wolf4earth
Tej Pochiraju joins the mix to discuss Progressive Web Apps and how you can support them using Elixir and Phoenix to control IoT devices....
New
chikega
Mark Hoffman, the author of Programming WebAssembly in Rust, is a pretty hilarious lecturer if you like a dry sense of humor.
New
RudManusachi
Hi there! Recently I was playing around with extracting and updating data in the DB and for fun challenged myself to try to implement a ...
New
tonyxrandall
As DoorDash transitioned from Python monolith to Kotlin microservices, our engineering team was presented with a lot of opportunities to ...
New

Other popular topics Top

Devtalk
Hello Devtalk World! Please let us know a little about who you are and where you’re from :nerd_face:
New
DevotionGeo
I know that -t flag is used along with -i flag for getting an interactive shell. But I cannot digest what the man page for docker run com...
New
AstonJ
There’s a whole world of custom keycaps out there that I didn’t know existed! Check out all of our Keycaps threads here: https://forum....
New
dimitarvp
Small essay with thoughts on macOS vs. Linux: I know @Exadra37 is just waiting around the corner to scream at me “I TOLD YOU SO!!!” but I...
New
Margaret
Hello everyone! This thread is to tell you about what authors from The Pragmatic Bookshelf are writing on Medium.
1147 29994 760
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Programming Ruby is the most complete book on Ruby, covering both the language itself and the standard library as well as commonly used t...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Build modern server-driven web applications using htmx. Whatever programming language you use, you’ll write less (and cleaner) code. ...
New
RobertRichards
Hair Salon Games for Girls Fun Girls Hair Saloon game is mainly developed for kids. This game allows users to select virtual avatars to ...
New
PragmaticBookshelf
Escape callback hell and ship fast, clean code that reads as smoothly as it runs. Squash bugs and stamp out memory leaks with an intuitiv...
New
xiji2646-netizen
There’s a GitHub repo at forrestchang/andrej-karpathy-skills that’s sitting at 97.8k stars. It’s a single CLAUDE.md file with four behavi...
New